An Author Interview from Books At a Glance
There is never a lack of interest in the book of Revelation, and Brian Tabb’s new book, All Things New: Revelation as Canonical Capstone, is, without doubt, one of the more helpful studies of the book you’ll find. I’m Fred Zaspel, editor at Books At a Glance, and we’re talking to today to Dr. Tabb about his new book.
Brian, welcome, and congratulations on this excellent book!
Tabb:
Thank you, Fred. Great to talk with you about it.
Zaspel:
There have been countless commentaries and other books written about the book of Revelation. What is your thesis, and what is the contribution you hope to make?
Tabb:
This book isn’t a commentary, but it’s a biblical theology approach to the book, so I take it, not verse by verse but thematically. I try to distill some of the key points in the book of Revelation. I argue that we should read the book of Revelation in its canonical or biblical-theological context. So I’m not mainly trying to discern how the current events of the day from the newspaper or the cable news network relate to the seals or the bowls or the trumpets; rather, I am arguing that John is presenting this book as the climax of biblical prophecy, that the imagery of the book is predominantly drawn from the Old Testament. I am arguing for interpreting Scripture with Scripture and seeing how Revelation ties lots of biblical threads together as the last installment of biblical prophecy, the concluding chapter in the big book that shows how everything gets resolved—how these prophecies and patterns of Scripture find their consummation in the reign of Jesus and in the restoration.
Zaspel:
Give us some background about how this book came about. It had its beginning in some other related work, right?
Tabb:
Yes, I’ve long been interested in the book of Revelation, like a lot of people. You’re either fascinated or terrified by it. I had some really great professors in graduate school who were specialists in the book Revelation, people like a Greg Beale, Sam Storms, and later Craig Koester, who wrote a big commentary on the book. I had taken some classes and had a certain background interest in the book, and then I had the opportunity in 2013–2014 to contribute the notes for Revelation for a study Bible. As I was working on that, I was impressed more deeply than I had been before by the various connections back to the Old Testament; I also felt the lack of good resources that might be able to give pastors and seminary students some help in approaching the book more thematically. I remember walking into a big Christian bookstore in my hometown and going to the prophecy section and just cringing a little bit, not sure if I could recommend any of these books to somebody. It was predominantly the current events approach to reading the book and not as much of the interpreting Scripture with Scripture approach. So when I finished the study Bible notes, I thought there would be a contribution to make.
Zaspel:
Revelation so obviously picks up and brings to climax so many OT themes and connections, yours is a book that really had to be written. Highlight for us just how and in what ways Revelation is the “capstone” of the biblical canon. And maybe you can point us to a couple passages in Revelation that are obviously dependent on the Old Testament.
Tabb:
The book presents itself in chapter 1, first as revelation, or the apocalypse of Jesus—apocalypse is really just transliterating the Greek word there. It’s a disclosure or an unveiling, making things visible that were hidden. It is also called the book of prophecy and then also addressed to the seven churches. Not only is Revelation called a book of prophecy, but John also presents himself in this book as a biblical prophet. He receives vision in the Spirit just like Ezekiel. He takes a scroll with writing on two sides and eats it just like Ezekiel, for example. At the end of the book, he has a warning against adding to or taking away from this book, which mirrors similar warnings in the book of Deuteronomy. He is presenting this as prophecy, not just his own ideas. We can turn to almost any chapter of the book, and see how there are Old Testament threads that are being woven together. Maybe a good place to start would be the vision of Jesus in chapter 1, where John hears a voice and then he turns and he sees one like the Son of Man. That one like the Son of Man is an allusion to the famous prophecy in Daniel 7:13. Jesus referred to that prophecy a number of times in the Gospels and here we see it in the foundational vision of the book. Who is this Jesus that is addressing the churches? He is one like the Son of Man, and his description also highlights that he has the attributes of the Ancient of Days, God himself: white hair, roaring voice, and so forth. A couple chapters later, we see other titles like the Lion of Judah and the Root of David that are recalling these great messianic promises of the Old Testament, which Jesus then fulfills in a surprising way as the slain lamb. Those are a couple of examples focusing on Jesus, in particular. We could also get into the chapters that are not preached or read in churches as often. In chapter 13 you have a beast coming out of the sea; I think most Bible readers would recognize that John is describing this terrifying beast in ways that are clearly drawing on Daniel’s vision in Daniel 7. Those are a couple of ways that you see the Old Testament and the New Testament working together in the book.
Zaspel:
Yes, and then even in terms of the biggest picture you’ve got back-to-Eden symbolism when you get to the end of the book.
Tabb:
Yes, that’s right. One of the clearest places that’s signaled to us is the references at the beginning and end of Revelation to the tree of life. You don’t get a lot of references to the tree of life after Genesis 3, and here in Revelation several times it is one of the central features of the New Creation. And not only the tree of life, but you also have other Edenic language in this book. But Revelation doesn’t just present us with a return back to the way things were right. It’s an advance beyond Eden, it better than Eden.
Zaspel:
I refer to it as back to Eden and beyond.
Tabb:
Yes, that’s right.
Zaspel:
There’s a clue in that too that we really are dealing with the capstone of the canon here, that would come back to the beginning and beyond, that we really are finishing the story here.
Tabb:
Think about what Adam and Eve were called to do in the beginning, as they were created in God’s image, to be fruitful and multiply, to fill the earth, and rule over it. What are God’s people doing at the end of this book? They are acting as priests and kings. They are fulfilling that creation mandate. They will reign forever and ever. The fulfillment of what we were made for as human beings created in God’s image to be with him and then rule over creation.
Zaspel:
Talk to us about the various factors we must consider in determining the structure of Revelation. And how might any of these be of interpretive significance?
Tabb:
The structure of Revelation is on one level not too difficult, and on another level really difficult to figure out. There might be more varied proposals about the outline of the book of Revelation than for any other New Testament book. Now, there are two general approaches to it. One is to see chapter 1:19 as the structural clue. That’s a very common approach. There Jesus says write therefore that which you have seen, which might refer to chapter 1—the vision of the Son of Man. “Those that are,” then refers to the letters to the seven churches. Then “those that are taken place after this”—the same phrase “after this” shows up at the beginning of chapter 4, and other places as well, so some would connect it to chapter 4 and then to say, okay you have chapters 1 through 3 that go together, then John moves from present to future. That’s one general approach to the book.
Another general approach that is pretty common is to see cycles in the book, a principal called recapitulation, in which the book covers similar territory from different angles. You have, for example, series of sevens, like seven churches, seven seals that the Lamb pealed back from the scroll, then you have seven trumpets and seven bowls and so forth. And if you put the trumpets and bowls next to each other, they look awfully similar to each other—the bowls seem to be just taking one step further, with very similar judgments. So those are two basic orientations to the book. There are some additional textual clues, though. Several times we see a phrase “in the Spirit” that occurs in the book. First, in chapter 1:10 John has his vision of the Son of Man, then at the beginning of chapter 4 with the throne room, then in chapter 17 before he sees Babylon the Great, and then in chapter 21 with the new creation vision. So, I see that phrase “in the Spirit” introducing some major structural divisions in the book, new major visionary units. And I think it’s also helpful to compare the beginning and end of the book, and keep in mind that this is written as a prophetic letter to seven churches and as a letter. It’s a different sort of letter that we see elsewhere in the New Testament, but it still has some of those features that are common to letters like the author, recipient, a grace and peace sort of greeting and so forth. There are a number of parallels between the prologue in 1:1–8 and in the epilogue in chapter 22. I think that’s another key structural feature to keep in mind. You could even take the book as introduction (verses 1–8), body (these 4 major visionary units), and then a conclusion, where he returns to some key themes and wraps up the book with an emphasis on Jesus’s return.
Zaspel:
How does the vision of Revelation 4-5 function in relation to the remainder of the book?
Tabb:
I think that Revelation 4 and 5 might be the favorite part of the book of Revelation for many readers, at least in my church experience. These verses are more frequently read aloud in churches. They are more frequently sung than any other part of this book. After addressing the seven churches that are in Asia Minor in chapters 2 and 3, John is given this glorious vision of the heavenly throne room, and the image of God Almighty as one seated on a throne. It is hinted at in chapter 1, but then from chapter 4 on, that becomes the defining image in the book for God. He is the enthroned one, and that throne carries the idea of kingship and also judicial authority, and it addresses an additional question that is working in this book: who has the authority to rule? Who has the authority to demand the ultimate allegiance of the nations?
You have similar references elsewhere to the throne of Satan and the throne of the beast in the book. And you have the nations going after the beast and worshiping the beast, taking the worship is due to God alone and giving it to someone else. Chapter 4 serves as a strict anchor point for us to orient us to what is true and right and good. Nothing is out of order in the throne room vision. Everything in heaven is oriented properly around the throne and the one seated on the throne, God himself. I think of the example of the four living creatures who have features representing the different parts of creation—the lion, the ox, the human beings, the eagle the greatest of the birds. As living creatures, they are fulfilling what living creatures should do: worshiping God, unceasingly doing what he says all the time, responding properly and actually giving us a picture of how things should be and how things will be one day when he makes all things new. After setting up the scene with the throne room in chapter 4, then in chapter 5 the drama of redemption unfolds on the heavenly stage. You have the problem with a sealed scroll and the solution with the one worthy to open it. Then Jesus is revealed as the worthy scroll-opener, receiving the praise that is due him and so forth. He is introduced there as the Lamb, which becomes Jesus’ signature title throughout the book of Revelation as well. In this book these two chapters are introducing foundational truths about God and Christ. They are orienting us to the one who has the right to rule over creation, the one who is worthy to redeem God’s people in Jesus. Chapters 4 and 5 also move right into the series of judgments—the seven seals in chapter 6 are the seals on the scroll that Jesus is worthy to open. John then goes right into the next major section of the book.
Zaspel:
What is the overall message of the book to the church – both in its original setting and today?
Tabb:
If you wanted to boil it down in two words, you could say that the message is “Worship God,” Revelation 19:10. If you wanted to unpack that more, you could say something like: “Worship God, because he alone is worthy of our allegiance, because he is the Creator, the King, and the Judge, and he has fulfilled his end-time promises by sending Jesus the slain Lamb, the exalted Son of Man, the returning King.” I do think this book’s message really does center on that idea of worship—worshiping the one who is worthy. And we see the messages to the churches, that there are various challenges facing the churches, that they are distracted by other things, tempted to compromise, they are to tempted to grow complacent, and they are tempted to allow a mixture of truth and error. This call to worship the God who is worthy serves as a challenge to readers to repent and to resist that kind of compromise and complacency, and it also serves as an encouragement to weary Christians, to keep going to hold fast, to not lose hope.
Zaspel:
Give us an overview of your book and how you go about unfolding the themes and message of Revelation.
Tabb:
I start out with an introduction to distill some of the key introductory matters related to the book, like the structure, the approach to reading it, and the importance of the Old Testament for understanding the book. The next three chapters go into the theology of God and Christ and Spirit in the book, the unfolding of the picture of the triune God that is introduced in the greeting in chapter 1 and unfolded from there. The next part focuses on the worship and witness of God’s people in chapter 5 and 6. There I develop the theme of every tribe and tongue, which we know well from the great heavenly scenes in chapter 5 and chapter 7. But there’s also a battle for that every tribe and tongue worship that’s going back and forth in the book—who is worthy of our worship—is it Christ or is it the beast? I try to unpack some of the key images that Revelation gives of the people of God—images like lampstands and a priestly kingdom. What does it mean to follow Christ as his redeemed people?
The next section of the book then looks at the themes of judgment, salvation, and restoration. I try to unfold how the plagues of judgment are developing a new exodus motif, as God answers the prayers of his people and sends judgment on those who refuse to repent. That then leads into this great contrast between the two women in the book: Babylon the harlot and Jerusalem the bride (chapter 8). That section closes with a reflection on the greater Eden. Like you started in the interview, that chapter focuses particularly on the beginning of Revelation 22 with the tree of life, the rolling back of the curse, the enduring presence of God with his people.
Then I close the book by presenting Revelation as the trustworthy words of God, seeing this not just as a book that is drawing on the Word of God in the Old Testament, but it is also presenting itself as the authoritative Word of God that needs to be heeded by God’s people today. Revelation also presents itself as the unsealed scroll, which is drawing on a passage at the end of Daniel, where Daniel is told to seal up the prophecy until the end. But John is told at the end Revelation, “Do not seal up the words of this book” because “the time is near.” So this Word of God is the distinct, final installment of the scriptural canon. It is presented as unsealed; it’s opened. We don’t have to guess how it’s all going to come together. There’s also a conclusion—that’s the basic structure of the book.
Zaspel:
We’re talking to Dr. Brian Tabb about his book, All Things New: Revelation as Canonical Capstone. It really is a wonderfully helpful guide to understanding the book of Revelation, one you’ll want to have for any study of this fascinating book.
Brian, thanks so much for your good work and for talking to us about it today.
Tabb:
Thank you.
