An Author Interview from Books At a Glance
Welcome to another Author Interview here at Books At a Glance! I’m Fred Zaspel, and we’re very happy to feature today Dr. Rob Plummer’s excellent new commentary on the epistle of James. It’s part of the new ESV Expository Commentary series, and Dr. Plummer is with us today to talk about his new book.
Rob, welcome, and congratulations on a really good commentary.
Plummer:
Thank you very much, Fred, I’m honored to chat with you.
Zaspel:
Before we talk about your new commentary, tell our listeners about the Daily Dose of Greek in case some are not familiar with this dimension of your ministry.
Plummer:
Thank you for that. Yeah, we have a website, Daily Dose of Greek, and there’s also an iOS app or an android app. Twitter, Facebook, there are various ways to receive this, but the main purpose of the Daily Dose ministry is to give a two to three minute stream cast, which is basically you just look at a screen and you hear my voice as I am writing on the Greek text and commenting on it. It’s to keep pastors and other people reading the Greek New Testaments for life, getting a small dose every day, two to three minutes. And if you do that, it’s amazing how it will help bring you back to what you once knew and have increasing joy and confidence in working in the original texts. We also have a Daily Dose of Hebrew. Similarly, you can view it various different ways, and all of that is free.
Zaspel:
I love them; I think they’re great; I think they’re wonderfully helpful. I had not really let my Greek slip, at all, at least I didn’t think I had, but I have profited greatly from these. I’ve enjoyed them a lot. They’ve been very helpful. That’s www.DailyDoseofGreek.com and www.DailyDoseofHebrew.com.
First, tell us about this new ESV Expository Commentary series. Who is the intended audience? What are some of the aims and objectives the editors had in mind for these commentaries? What is their niche?
Plummer:
I can’t speak fully for Crossway’s, I’m just one of the authors, but as I understand it as one of the people that wrote for the editors, the purpose of the series is to have a doctrinally informed, careful, exegetical commentary that’s pastoral in application and not overly technical. It’s trying to find the sweet spot of the educated reader, who is probably someone in ministry, but accessible to non-ministerial-trained educated people. The nice thing about it, when I was invited by Jim Hamilton, one of the editors, to work on it, I also talked to my colleague Tom Schreiner who had just finished the Revelation commentary on it. We were chatting and he said he just sat down and wrote it. A lot of times, if you write theological or biblical works you spend a lot of time reading other works and constantly citing them, footnoting them. But it seems that they chose people who had taught through or preached through these books, and so we are very familiar with them and have already digested a lot of that secondary material. The thought is that we are not really concerned with footnoting and footnoting there, but bringing the fruit of careful study and just making it clear and accessible to the reader. I did the same thing; I was on sabbatical; I sat over in a library off-campus so I could get away from all distractions and I just sat there and wrote. I’ve taught through the book of James multiple times. Occasionally I would look something up to make sure I remembered how this person said this and obviously if I’m quoting someone, cite them, but minimal quotation of secondary material. Personally, I think that makes the commentary read much easier than a lot of commentaries where the guy is always having to make sure they know about that, and footnoting that. That can actually be kind of distracting.
Zaspel:
You’ve been through the commentary before – in the classroom or in church settings?
Plummer:
Yes. The book of James, of course I’ve read it many times before I worked on the Greek with it in the English Bible, but I have a special fondness for it. When I was a new faculty member at Southern and I was trying to figure out what upper-level elective I wanted to teach in Greek, I had to think about how not to step on my colleagues’ toes. Thielman was already doing Galatians and Schreiner Romans, so I had to say where is the spot where I can contribute, and I chose James. I’ve taught through the book in Greek at the seminary multiple times and it’s a fun book. It’s just the right size for a semester-long exegesis; it’s very practical. A publisher, when I told him that I had done the commentary on James, said, “that’s interesting; the book of James, you may know, in most commentary series is the best seller of the series.”
Zaspel:
Is that right?
Plummer:
Yes. I didn’t know that. Evangelical Christians like the book of James. You know, think about for a Sunday night Bible study, Wednesday night Bible study, home group study, these kinds of things – it’s a very practical book, it’s varied, it’s not too long, you’re not committing to years and years of studying it. So, I hope that what I did will help other people read the book of James more carefully and faithfully. That was certainly my desire and I enjoyed writing it.
Zaspel:
Who was James, to whom was he writing, and why?
Plummer:
James was a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ and he wrote to the twelve tribes scattered among the nations. Of course, I’m just quoting the beginning of the book of James there. I think, to be completely forthright, all we know of him, all we can demand of Christians for faithfulness is to affirm what the book itself says about him, that he is a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ and obviously he is writing with apostolic authority. I remember when I first found out, years ago, that Calvin thought James the son of Alpheus wrote the book of James, I was kind of surprised. I was like, that’s really interesting, I had never heard that before. But I do think the traditional view has more in its favor. I do think this is the half-brother of Jesus, with the same mother, Mary. And I think that he was the James we read about in the book of Acts who was prominent in the Jerusalem church, the James of the Jerusalem Council who is moderating and leading that discussion. I think that he is writing to Christians, probably, mostly of Jewish Christian background, who are outside of Jerusalem, now, maybe who have been scattered by persecution and are in communities far enough away from him that he has to write this letter of instruction. Many of them, it seems from the letter, or undergoing difficulties, especially economic difficulties. Maybe they are being oppressed by wealthy landowners who are taking advantage of them and their more fragile economic situation.
Zaspel:
Give us a quick fly-over of James’ letter.
Plummer:
Yes, it’s interesting. People try, there are all these different structures for the book of James and I’m not convinced by any of them. I mean I think there are insights in all of them, but it seems to me there is an undeniable theme of Christian consistency and wholeness in the letter. That Christians are to live in accord with the faith they profess, and that they are to be doers of the Word and not hearers only, deceiving themselves. That’s really the core message. Now, sometimes that can be distorted and people will take it out of context and try to say that James is just about works, works, works, but if you read the letter carefully, undergirding that is clearly the sovereign act of God in saving his people. In James 1:18 it says he chose, God’s will, to give us birth. This is about spiritual regeneration, through the word of truth that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he has created. The book of James is about being a firstfruit, it’s about being a visible display of God’s transformative, saving work in the world, and not being a hypocrite, and not being a nominal professor. There are all these different things that relate to that – speech, care for the poor, prayer, our response of trusting God through difficulty. But all of those relate back to spiritual consistency and faithfulness and being doers of the Word and not hearers only. In the commentary, at one point I briefly compare the letter to almost like a series of ancient blog posts. Like if you have a pastor who writes a blog every week; one week it might be on prayer, and one week it might be on caring for the poor. It seems a little bit disjointed. I think it was Martin Luther who said James is erratic and just throws things together haphazardly. Of course, I wouldn’t say it that way, Luther had his problems with James and he was also very provocative in his speech. I would say that it’s just practical paragraph after practical paragraph. And many times the connection can be a wordplay, even, in the Greek that sometimes is difficult to pick up in an English translation. You might have three similar sounds right before a new section that are then repeated. It’s similar to hearing a pastor using alliteration in a series like the Power of Prayer, the Persistence of Prayer, etc. There’s a consistency that’s communicated by the repetition of sounds that’s difficult to convey if that were translated into another language.
Zaspel:
How then would you summarize the leading message or the theme of James? I remember some years ago Guy King had a commentary on it. He called it A Belief that Behaves. Is that the kind of track you are on?
Plumber:
Yes. I think it’s living up to your profession, being consistent with who you claim to be. Don’t merely listen to the Word and so deceive yourselves, do what it says. It assumes regeneration. Sometimes it explicitly states it, but generally it is assuming those things. It might state them but then assume that the person that is being addressed is born again, that they are filled with the Spirit, that they have a desire to glorify and please Jesus as his follower. So this, then, is a letter of exhortation about calling Christians to be faithful. It seems that at points James is fighting against a nominalism. We are fighting against a demonic faith, that you know, even the demons believe God is one. Just saying you believe in God, just verbally professing things, is not the same as having a living faith. He is fighting against a dead faith. It’s not that there’s faith plus works versus just faith; he’s fighting a dead faith which has no works and he saying the proper faith is a living faith which contains and produces works.
Zaspel:
One question that we just have to ask, and one that many I’m sure will be hoping you will address, is the question of James’ view of justification: James 2:14-26. In verse 24 he says with some obvious emphasis, “You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” What about that? And how does this fit with Paul’s insistence that justification is by faith alone?
Plummer:
Yes. Well I think there’s no contradiction between Paul and James. I do think that we just need to read each one carefully in light of their own context. Paul speaks about exactly the same thing that James does but I think he uses the language of fruit. The fruit of the Spirit, love, joy, peace – this is something that is produced in us, that is an evidence, an expression of genuine faith. Now, in Paul’s letters… I take kind of a traditional view on this, so I’m not going to get into all of the defense of it, but I think he is often fighting some form of legalism, it would seem, that people would say, well, you have to do these things. In order to really be accepted by God, you need to follow the food laws, you need to be circumcised. He’s fighting legalism. Whereas James, as I mentioned earlier, is really fighting more of the danger of nominalism, an empty profession of faith without any actual heartfelt devotion and accompanying fruit and evidence. I’ve heard it compared that rather than facing each other, fighting off, James and Paul are not facing each other but they are back to back fighting two different errors outside the church. Even if you look at that famous passage, James 2:14-26, it’s quite clear, verse 14, “What does it profit, my brothers, if someone says they have faith?” So, this is a faith that is characterized by self-proclaimed verbal profession, but doesn’t have deeds. There’s no actual deeds or evidence. Can that kind of faith – because looking at the Greek, at the anaphoric use of the article there – can that kind of faith save him? Well, no, that’s not saving faith. That’s a dead and even a demonic faith that can affirm doctrinal things, but then not really have heartfelt devotion to them and not follow in obedience. And I think specifically even further down in that passage, if you look at verse 18, he is saying someone will say you have faith and I have works, and basically saying someone will object, “well, one person can have faith, and another person can have works, what’s your big deal? You know there’s different spiritual gifts.” And he’s like, “no, no, no, if there’s real faith, that faith has works, it produces works.” And so, he goes on and look at the category he has is visible evidence. He says, “show me your faith, without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.” I think the real theme there is speaking about a revelation of whether somebody is saved. In verse 24, about a person being justified by works, I think the New Living translation really gets it right, they say you see a person is shown to be right with God by their deeds. It’s speaking about visible attestation. And I realize someone could read that and say, “well, you’re a Protestant evangelical and you want it to say that.” I can’t make a detailed argument of this in a brief phone interview, but I will just mention in passing, as well, that the Roman Catholic scholar, Patrick Hartin, who wrote the commentary on James in the very respected Sacra Pagina series, takes exactly the same view there, that this is not deeds gaining salvation or even justification before God but it’s a deeds as evidence of a genuine saved justified person. So you’d think if there’s someone who would see it another way it might be a Catholic scholar, right? But even he is reading it in the way that I am arguing here.
Zaspel:
Because of James’ distinct practical or hortatory bent, some have suggested that we might categorize James as “wisdom” literature? Is that fair?
Plummer:
Well, I think it certainly has that feel and flavor sometimes, to it. I mean about practical living and especially things related to speech and interactions with others. It’s obviously an epistle; it obviously has a homiletical feel to it; it feels like it’s almost like a sermon written down. It has a lot of exhortation, appeal, passion. It also has a practical bend of wisdom literature, so it’s a little bit of a hybrid, maybe.
Zaspel:
How do you understand the passage in chapter 5 about the anointing with oil for the sick? Do you take the medicinal view of Warfield, or do you understand it as a symbolic ceremonial function of some kind?
Plummer:
Yeah, good question. I do think it’s referring to an actual practice of anointing with oil as a symbolic way of setting a person apart for God’s intervention. The same way, if I could draw the analogy to, when we pray for people, we put our hands on their shoulders and we bow our heads. Well, we don’t believe that’s some sort of magical thing, as if, well, if I don’t put my hand on you, if I don’t bow my head… But it’s a tangible, palpable way of expressing our appeal and it does seem that James is giving instructions there for a way to do that. And I think quite a few modern churches have rediscovered that as a God-given way to show the intensity of their concern and their love for those going through a great trial. So, yes, our church does use anointing with oil for when sick people would request us to do that.
Zaspel:
In your research preparing this commentary, was there a particular verse or passage in James that surprised you or otherwise stood out in some way – whether as a verse that became a favorite or one that presented an unexpected interpretive challenge?
Plummer:
As I mentioned, I’ve worked through the book multiple times so I don’t know that I was surprised. There were places where I had to stop and think and maybe read a few things to make sure I’m thinking clearly. One that I keep returning to, and even today speaks to me personally, is in James 4:13-17, where he rebukes them for making plans without reference to their frailty and the sovereignty of God. And just in my own life, you know, Fred, I had open heart surgery this last year. Which I’m a super healthy guy, I’m running and everything. . . So it’s just a reminder, daily, numerous things are reminders that, “if God wills,” deo volente. We need to remember that we are frail creatures, that he is sovereign and our lives are in his hands.
If we live and we are able to serve him and do things we praise him, and if not, we praise him and submit to his sovereign plan, as well.
Zaspel:
That’s always been a favorite passage of mine when speaking to what sometimes is called practical atheism. We profess a belief in God but we live, practically, like an atheist. We don’t keep it in the front of our mind that it’s if the Lord wills we will live and do this or that.
What distinctive contribution does James make in the New Testament Canon?
Plummer:
That’s a good question. In other words, if James were not there, sort of like in Martin Luther’s version. Although Luther did leave James in the canon, he just moved it to the end of his German translation if I understand correctly.
Much of James’ teaching, as is frequently pointed out, is paralleled in Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount. One of the things James gives us is a way to take the teaching of Jesus and reapply it in a pastoral setting. So we have a model, really, a Holy Spirit inspired model of taking the teaching of the Gospels and making it more propositional or more for the gathering of the local church body as opposed to out on the hillside of Galilee. There’s just some beautiful passages in James that speak with such relevance and poignancy to gossiping, to care for the poor, so I think it’s just very practical and enriching. There’s a reason Christians like to read James and study it.
Zaspel:
I like that, I’ve never really thought of it quite in those terms, that here we have an inspired example of pastoral application of Scripture. That’s excellent.
We’re talking to Dr. Rob Plummer of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary about his new ESV Expository Commentary on James. It’s one of those commentaries that is marked by close attention to the biblical text and careful exposition, on the one hand, and simplicity on the other – a valuable commentary that is easily accessible and wonderfully helpful to anyone who wants to study this epistle. I’m sure it will receive wide use, and we’re very happy to commend it.
Rob, thanks so much for your faithful ministry and for talking to us today.
Plummer:
Thank you.
